When I wrote up what I had learned of the history of the
Prices of Pantyffordd[1],
from who my mother is descended, I could see no way of discovering any more of
the story beyond the patriarchal figure of William Price Tynllwyn, Myddfai who
was born early in the 18th century and died in 1799. I counted it
very fortunate that there were so many sources which testified to his memory,
not only through his will and one or two other legal documents and letters, but
also in Mr Theodore Arber-Cooke’s “Pages from the History of Llandovery”. When
I read Vol. 2 of his history I could not help but be intrigued by the fact that
he tantalisingly hinted at a relationship between William Price and Thomas
Price, a mercer of Llandovery. According to A-C’s sources the two had inherited
a moiety (share) of property in Heol Cerrig (Stone Street) Llandovery but no
further detail was given. Did A-C have access to some document, will or deed
that suggested this – he does not say. However, he obviously concluded that
there was a family tie between them when he included their pedigrees together
in the Appendix of Volume 2 of his history.
The only other possible clue to William’s origins was the
testimony of the late Mr D.R. Powell in the preface to a book of local poetry
of the area[2].
“My mother was one of six children of David and Mary Price Gorllwynfach[3],
they were from the family of Price Tynewydd who were descended before that from
Glasallt and Llwynifanfeddyg.' He goes on to say that his mother always told
them that her roots lay with the drovers from Shrewsbury who had settled in the
area". This proved to be
impossible to establish. I was unable to find any clue about William Price’s
origins or any link between him and Thomas Price. It seemed to me that some
deed or document – maybe in the deeds of the Stone St. properties – may
establish a common ancestor but for the moment it seemed like a brick wall had
been reached. However, it had always seemed to me to be remarkable that both
William and Thomas should appear in Myddfai Parish at approximately the same
time and baptised children in St. Michael’s, the Parish Church. But they do
seem to appear almost from nowhere!
But then, as a
result of some diligent searching and a discovery made by a distant cousin,
Fiona Price[4]
of Llandovery, a further hare was set running. William Price’s eldest son John
was first appointed curate then later vicar of Myddfai parish. Fiona discovered
online a book written by Nicholas Carlisle published in 1811 entitled “A Topographical
Dictionary of the Dominion of Wales” which describes Wales parish by parish. In
addition to his own descriptions Carlisle had invited the incumbents of the
various parishes to contribute to their description. William’s eldest son John
was the vicar of Myddfai at the time and Nicholas Carlisle specifically says in
the entry for Myddfai, “The present worthy Vicar, The Rev. JOHN PRICE, most
kindly adds ….” and then in the middle of his description of the parish
John Price writes, “… in the Church yard is interred Mr William Price,
Gentleman, who left legacies to 40 Children and Grand-children; he was related
to Lord Crewe, and Admiral Curtis.”
The description of
William Price, gentleman and the detail of the number of legacies leave little
doubt that this is John Price’s father, William Price Tynllwyn - but what to
make of the references to Lord Crewe and Admiral Curtis? Was this (as my friend
Gareth Jones very reasonably suggested) just a case of “Lloyd George knew my
father” or was there a real connection?
A link to Admiral
Curtis has proved intractable thus far, but Fiona very quickly found a possible
link to Lord Crewe. There is plenty of information online regarding the Crewe
family of Crewe Hall, Cheshire. The original Crewe family go way back (to William
the Conqueror) and have a history connected to parliament. However, it seemed
that the male line might have run out with Ann Crew the only daughter and heir of
John Crewe (1626 - 1684) and his wife Carew Gorges (d/o Sir Arthur Gorges). Ann
Crew married John Offley of Madely Manor in Staffordshire (he died 1749) and
they had a son John Offley born 20 Sep 1681 (died 25 Aug 1749) who changed his
name from Offley to Crewe by Act of Parliament in 1708 having inherited Crewe
Hall from his mother Ann. And this is where a possible connection with Wm.
Price appears to be – John Offley (shortly to become Crewe) married Sarah Price
the daughter of Morgan Price Nantgwared, Llywel in 1707. They married at the
May Fair Chapel in London which apparently vied with the Fleet Prison as the
place for clandestine marriages at this time. This John Crewe became MP for
Cheshire. They had 3 sons - John Crewe (1709 - 1752), Joseph Crewe and Rev.
Ranulph Crewe - the latter becoming the
rector of Bartholmey in Cheshire. Their eldest son John Crewe married Anne
Shuttleworth and they had a number of daughters and two sons John and Richard.
The elder son, John Crewe (1742 - 1829) became 1st Baron Crew so would have
been the Lord Crewe living in 1811 that Rev. John Price was referring to.
And so Sarah Price,
daughter of Morgan Price Nantgwared, Llywel appears as a possible link to
William Price. What could be discovered about her and her family? This is the
point at which things got really difficult because research in the 17th
and 18th centuries is not so easy. Many hours of poring over sources
and piecing together bits of information has resulted in what seems a possible
link, but having said that, the final piece of the jigsaw remains elusive.
So I present the
following as the culmination of a great deal of digging but in also recognising
that in the end it may well be time wasted in so far as extending my own family
history is concerned. However, the research was interesting as an end in itself
(never previously having taken much interest in centuries earlier than the 18th)
and it may well provide the basis for further research and might eventually
lead to the discovery of a common ancestor of Thomas and William Price.
Ultimately I still believe that the answer to this lies in the deeds of the
older properties of Heol Cerrig (Stone Street) in Llandovery and possibly a will.
Having said all of
that, the results of the research fill in a gap in knowledge concerning an old
Breconshire family which Theophilus Jones, the Breconshire historian, knew
about but in a limited way.
[1]
This is available as a series of blog posts on the internet. “The Prices of
Pantyffordd.”
[2] Hanner
Canrif o'r Digri a'r Difri o fro Meddygon Myddfai' David Rees Powell 2000
[3]
Gorllwynfach and Tynewydd are farms in the parish of Myddfai
[4]
Fiona is a descendant of William Price
the brother of my maternal great grandfather David Price.
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